Jesse Eisenberg and Julianne Moore on ‘The Debut,’ Testing AI to ‘Make Sure It’s Bad’ and Hoping ‘Now You See Me 4’ Gets Made

Jesse Eisenberg has a confession about the biggest moment in “The Debut.”

When the crowd at the Telluride world premiere broke into mid-film applause after a showdown between Julianne Moore and Paul Giamatti, also known as “the rent is due” scene, his first thought wasn’t relief.

“Oh no! Can they go on the ride?” he recalls to Variety. That’s because the next scene is dramatic. “If you’re a paranoid and worried person, all signs lead to panic.”

That’s the man who wrote, directed, produced, scored and stars in the A24 musical comedy, which has taken awards season by storm. He also built the entire film around his muse, Oscar winner Julianne Moore, who plays Mona Friedman, a shy housewife who picks up a flyer and auditions for a community theater musical for the first time in her life. Eisenberg wrote the role for her.

On this episode of the Variety Awards Circuit podcast, we sit down with the two collaborators to discuss their latest film, their anxieties about the future of the industry and Eisenberg’s hopes for another “Now You See Me” sequel. Listen below!

Moore has been nominated for five Academy Awards — supporting actress for “Boogie Nights” (1997) and “The Hours” (2002) and lead actress for “The End of the Affair” (1999), “Far From Heaven” (2002) and “Still Alice” (2014), winning for the latter. Eisenberg was nominated for best actor for his portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg in David Fincher’s “The Social Network” (2010) and for best original screenplay for “A Real Pain” (2024), which won supporting actor for Kieran Culkin.

A24’s “The Debut,” Eisenberg’s third feature as a director, had its world premiere at the Telluride Film Festival to rave reviews. It has since played the Toronto, New York and Middleburg Film Festivals, the latter of which is where this podcast episode was recorded.

Moore has spent decades as Todd Haynes’ muse. Now she belongs to Eisenberg, too. When I ask whether he’s warned Haynes off, he says jokingly, “He gets it.” Eisenberg’s explanation for why directors keep coming back to her is one of the best cases for her career I’ve heard in a while. He gets “pissed off” reading reviews of “May December” that praise its depth and darkness without recognizing what he sees: “an unbelievably brilliant comic creation.” She has, he says, “a funny bone within drama that is so unusual,” the kind drama school trains out of you.

A24 opens “The Debut” in theaters on Dec. 11

The conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

You’ve seen 100 cuts of this movie. What is it like to sit in the room when it’s being watched for the first time? Are you thinking, “Please laugh?”

Eisenberg: Oh my God, of course. You hope there’s some sentient reaction from the audience. But there’s another weird thing that’s less expected. When you’re working on a movie, you’re working on it for two or three years and everybody you’re working with is an ally. No one’s criticizing it or poking holes in it, except in good-natured ways. It’s, “Can we try this? Can we try that?” So you forget that it’s going to be critiqued, and you forget that it could be a disaster because you’ve spent three years with people who all love it. At that point, this little moment of panic creeps in because you realize this whole thing could have been for naught. So the fact that there was a great reaction to it, an audible reaction, is a kind of relief.

The mid-film applause we all keep talking about comes after the big scene between Julianne and Paul. When you heard that, did you feel like you could breathe again?

Eisenberg: I have such paranoia that my first thought after it gets huge applause and laughter is, “Oh no! Can they go on the ride?” Because the next scene is dramatic. If you’re a paranoid and worried person, all signs lead to panic.

Mona is a masterpiece of a creation for both of you. Were you connecting her to the great characters you’ve played, or was she completely original?

Moore: She was completely original, and so original on the page. It’s an extraordinary feat of writing and character development that Jesse just handed me. I’m so lucky to embody someone right on the brink of change. She’s relatable because she’s all of us who’ve been in a place where we know we want something different, but we don’t know what it is and we’re willing to take a chance. What leads her to that place? Why does she pick up that flyer and audition for the first time in her life? She’s following a desire without knowing where it will lead her. She doesn’t know anything. She’s so literal in her understanding, and she goes on a complete voyage of character development, finding community, meaning and purpose. Mona, in a sense, is any of us who’ve tried something new.

The film leads you to wonder whether if this is all in her head. At times, it feels like a fantastical musical. Did you want to put us on our heels, to think something is wrong with her, so that we fall in love with Mona even more?

Eisenberg: That’s such a nice and perceptive question. I didn’t think I wanted the audience to be off balance. All I wanted to do was create a subjective story. Because the movie is about the world of musical theater, it gave me permission to make a heightened movie, because we’re living in that theme and tone. So whatever Julianne is feeling in a particular scene is heightened 20% in that direction. If she’s feeling scared, she’s walking past people warming their hands over a garbage can fire in this fantastical-looking, terrifying 1920s version of a city. If she’s feeling welcomed, then it’s Halle Bailey, the world’s sweetest person and loveliest actress, coming to tell her, “I know we’ve just met, but I can tell we’re going to be sisters.” I wanted everything to be filtered through this woman, who’s a baby and has experienced such invisibility. That’s why it sometimes feels fantastical in a positive way, with Halle, who’s wonderful in the movie and sometimes overly terrifying, like the scenes with Paul Giamatti, who’s a genius. It’s all about what she’s feeling, not objective reality.

I never ask for sequels, but I want the one where Halle Bailey gives Mona dating advice. “Girl, we’re going to get you a man.” Maybe while doing an adaptation of “Rent?”

Eisenberg: When we were looking for titles for this movie, my friend suggested “Rent” because it’s a musical and it’s all about her getting the rent.

Could you legally?

Eisenberg: I think we looked into it. No, it would be too comic.

Julianne, for much of my life, you’ve been Todd Haynes’ muse. It’s hard to think of an actor who has belonged to two different directors, but after only two movies, I think you belong to Jesse now. How does it feel to be so many directors’ favorite actor? And Jesse, have you told Todd to stay away from her?

Eisenberg: I will say … he gets it.

Moore: First of all, oh my God, thank you. It’s unbelievably flattering to be called someone’s muse. It’s unbelievably rewarding to spark someone’s imagination and to think you’ve been part of their creative process in any way. That’s the most magnificent thing as an actor: having a real collaboration. That’s what we’re all about. Jesse wrote a movie about a creative journey and where it happens, and it happens in community. It happens with another person. We don’t do what we do alone. We can’t. It’s even reflected in the relationship with Paul’s character. People talk about him being an antagonist, an adversary. He’s not at all. He’s her creative partner. He grows with her, and at a certain point, he has to say, “Now you’re on your own. Now you perform. I’ve taught you as much as I can teach you, and now you go.” It’s everything I’ve ever wanted in my career: to have people who want to work with me and to somehow add to their work as well.

I’m always saying I got one shot at this, and if we do it again, then OK, now I know I can do it.

You two worked together on “When You Finish Saving the World.” Did you know then that you wanted to work together again?

Moore: I was jealous, though, because he said, “I’m doing this movie.” He had already written “A Real Pain” and was on his way to make it when we finished “When You Finish Saving the World.” I’m like, “There’s not a part for me in it?”

Eisenberg: It’s funny that you brought up her being a muse for people because, while you were asking, I was trying to think about what that means. It’s something quite specific. It’s not just that this person is phenomenal and famous, and it certainly has nothing to do with “Oh, she can help me get my movie financed.”

Moore: And I don’t know that I can.

Eisenberg: It’s purely creative. There’s something so unbelievably funny about her that I find gets overlooked when I read notices about her movies, because she’s also this glamorous, phenomenal dramatic actress. I always get pissed off when I read responses to “May December.” Everybody’s like, “This wonderful performance, so rich in depth and darkness.” It is all those things. But I watch it as an unbelievably brilliant comic creation. “Far From Heaven,” again, another dramatic thing, but there’s such humor in the repression she’s experiencing. Maybe that’s why people love her so much. She has a funny bone within drama that’s so unusual, because you go to drama school and they don’t encourage you to be funny.

Get to the tears as fast as possible.

Eisenberg: Exactly, and don’t you dare compromise the stakes by having a funny bone. She’s so naturally funny without ever being a comic, and it’s so rare. I think for people like Todd Haynes, who I don’t know that well but know is funny, that’s a real joy.

Moore: Jesse’s wonderful about putting stakes in real life. So often, I read screenplays and the only way they’re able to create stakes is through a murder, a missing child or an asteroid that’s going to hit the Earth. Yes, obviously there are stakes involved in that, but there are stakes in everyday life. Is somebody going to call you? Is the meeting going to go well? Are you going to burn dinner? There are stakes, and they matter to us. The fact that Jesse can invest his films with those kinds of emotional stakes is really interesting to me, because I think that’s how we live. That’s who we are.

Eisenberg: Also, with the asteroid stuff, anybody would react the same way, which is panic. Whereas, if you have a real character, they’re putting life-and-death stakes on something the rest of us might not agree with. She wants to be in this play. I think 90% of people, if Paul Giamatti yelled at you on the first day of rehearsal, would just quit the show. But because this person is coming into this world with so little, she ends up imbuing this silly thing with life-and-death stakes and then we can relate.

Julianne, the unlit cigarette. I’m trying to figure out how to make that my thing. Was it in the script? And how do you make an unlit cigarette so hilarious while some pretty serious things are being said?

Moore: I loved it. I thought it was so funny as written, and I was also worried it would be distracting. So how do you imbue this action with enough meaning that it’s equally funny but not distracting when you’re trying to do something emotional? Oddly, it’s her first engagement in an imaginary circumstance, which is what they teach you in acting. How do you make something real when it’s not real? How do you make an audience believe it’s really happening? If you make the audience believe it, they won’t laugh. You can laugh at it from out there, but when you see her doing it and making it real, it won’t distract from the emotional content. It’s something you do when you’re first starting out: stir a pot, open a door, button a shirt. You’re pretending, but it has to be exact and you have to believe it, too. I did say to Jesse when he was putting it together, “Is it distracting? Is the smoking weird?” He was like, “Nope. It’s perfect.”

Eisenberg: It’s also a woman discovering her sensuality — not sexuality, but sensuality — where she’s starting to feel things in her body. She’s drinking. It’s what happens to an actor. You try to open yourself up to sensuality.

People like to act like no one’s doing this for awards, and I’m not saying you are, but it feels nice to be recognized. When you look at your body of work, do you ever think, “I can’t believe I did all that?”

Moore: I think we all tend to look forward, not back. When you’re living your life, you’re just like, “What’s next? What’s in front of me? What am I working on? What am I eating next? When’s breakfast?” You don’t reflect on what you’ve done, and sometimes, as people mention it, you’re like, “Oh, yeah, that movie.” Something odd happens. You construct something, and then you forget it in performance as well, because there’s an unconscious aspect to performing. You want to be prepared enough that when you’re actually doing it, you lose consciousness of your actions and that in itself leads to forgetting. Sometimes, if I see things I’ve done, I’m like, “I don’t remember doing that with my head or walking that way or making that vocal choice.” You do it, and then it’s behind you. I never think about it. I’m just grateful that I have something to do, because that’s what propels me. What am I doing? What am I engaged in?

Jesse, you’re doing the writer-director thing, which is great, but I want to keep reminding people that you’re an actor and a very good one. Your snub for “The Squid and the Whale” is one I think about often. Do you feel like you’re balancing the roles of writer, director and actor?

Eisenberg: It’s funny to hear Julianne Moore, and I’m using your full name on purpose, talk about just looking forward, because her career has touched so many people and contributed so much to culture. I feel the same way, and I see it as fear. What will I be doing next? What will I work on? Part of the reason I’m doing so many different things isn’t just because I have this amazing, creative, expansive mind. It’s because I’m kind of terrified that none of them will work out. Doing five jobs on this movie is how I protect myself for the future. I can be a writer if you want that, or I can go direct a deodorant ad or something and, worst case, I can promise you I can do it because I did “The Debut.” I have that feeling about everything. We’re in an unstable industry, and I don’t do well with instability in general.

I’ve been thrust into this job, which I’m very lucky to have, but it’s not a good job for my personality and wiring. My counter to that is to try to do as many things as possible. And I am unpretentious. The next movie I want to do more than anything is “Now You See Me 4,” and I’m praying that they write it, because I love that more than anything. I don’t have this feeling that, now that I’m directing these more independent, serious movies, I don’t want to be in something a little more Hollywood-ish. I like working. I feel so lucky to have done what I do, and I feel so hopeful that I get to do it more.

We’re in a very weird time. The industry is going through changes with mergers and AI. Are you hopeful for the future?

Moore: I was thinking about this just this morning. Creatives keep appearing. I was thinking about talking to young people because I’m going to do a master class at SCAD when I’m down there. A friend I worked with a long time ago runs the department. What do you say to students? What I always say is, “These are your peers. Look around. You’re going to be working with these people. Your creative life starts now.” People keep emerging, and we always act surprised. “Oh my God, look at this filmmaker.” But they were there. Here they come. You don’t know that the 22-year-old you spoke to at SCAD will be the next big filmmaker in 10 years. People talk about the business, but it’s really about the stories people are telling. What are they writing? What are they directing? Where are these actors coming from? They keep being born.

I didn’t think, watching “The Squid and the Whale,” that guy was going to direct movies and be good at it.

Moore: Absolutely not. This charming, wonderful young actor emerged in “Roger Dodger” and people were like, “Look at this kid.” You were what, 17?

Eisenberg: I was 18.

Moore: So his acting career started then, but no one would have said, “Oh, he’s going to be a really important filmmaker.” And yet, there he was.

Jesse, Julie says the future looks positive. Are you not nervous about it at all?

Eisenberg: I have a paranoid answer for this. I’m totally paranoid. I sometimes experiment with AI to see whether it’s good at writing. And it’s still not. I’m paranoid, so I check and it still isn’t. Thank God. I say, “Write a scene like this.” I’m just testing it to make sure it’s bad, and it’s still bad. So I’m relieved, but, like, how far away is it from being good? How far are we from a kid putting on a pair of goggles and saying, “I want to watch a movie about me where I rob a bank and then kiss the girl I’m in love with at school. Here are pictures of her, here are pictures of me” and then they press play? I’m paranoid about that.

The saving grace is two things. One is what Julianne said: Creative spirit will find ways to entertain and delight us and speak about things in a way that maybe computers won’t. The other thing I think about all the time, and she’s about to go to a play in New York, is that I do these Greek plays, which were written 2,500 years ago and we perform them the same way they were performed 2,500 years ago. If they’ve lasted that long, they’ll still be there. People want to be in the same room as other people, watching and listening to stories. It’s as old as cave people sitting by the campfire telling stories, and there will always be room for that. What I do worry about is whether we’ll still be able to make a living from it. I’m not 100% sure about that.

10 QUESTIONS WITH JULIANNE MOORE & JESSE EISENBERG

Childhood nickname?

Moore: Juju.

Eisenberg: This is not ironic: “Wild Thing,” because I was a really rambunctious basketball player. I’m not joking. If you meet somebody who knows me, they’ll know.

Something you loved as a kid that you can’t believe you were into?

Moore: Witchcraft. I just loved witchcraft. I used to buy books on the occult and cast spells and stuff.

Eisenberg: Wrestling. Loved wrestling.

Go-to karaoke or shower song?

Moore: I’ve never done karaoke in my life. In the shower, stuff from “Dear Evan Hansen.”

Eisenberg: My karaoke song was “Hold On Loosely” by .38 Special, and in the shower, it would be “Rose’s Turn” from “Gypsy.” Somewhere in the middle is where I live.

Alternate title for “The Debut?”

Eisenberg: We just talked about that. “Rent.”

Moore: Or “No One Cares.” That was the original title. That’s what we filmed it under.

Secret talent?

Moore: Cleaning.

Eisenberg: I do more voice work than people expect. My kid and I do really great impressions. I don’t think those will make it into a multiplex, but I do some pretty funny voice work.

Favorite ice cream flavor?

Moore: Vanilla. Soft-serve vanilla. It’s not a brand. But now it gives me a stomachache, so I’ve really got to watch it as we get older. Can I also say that this is my second favorite, and everyone thinks it’s disgusting? Rum raisin.

Eisenberg: For me, it’s pistachio, only because I am a paranoid person and eating ice cream makes me feel like I’m doing something bad for my body. If I have the illusion that it’s derived from nuts, it makes me feel calm. I’ve had rum raisin once, and it’s delicious.

The one item you can’t live without?

Moore: My iPad, my God.

Eisenberg: A sleep mask.

What TV show or film in all of history do you wish you were a cast member of?

Moore: “Mad Men.”

Eisenberg: Maybe “Seinfeld.” But who would I be? I’d be the boy.

Moore: You can be an extra. You don’t have to be one of the main ones.

Fictional character you relate to or admire most?

Eisenberg: Could I start with a cop-out? Mona Friedman. I watch that, and I’m like, “That’s me.” Everything is me in her.

Moore: Countess Olenska, because she’s so self-sacrificing. I admire her, but I don’t know that I could do it.

Best piece of advice you’ve given or received?

Moore: Persevere.

Eisenberg: Bob Odenkirk screamed at me for writing commercial romantic comedies when I was 21 and said, “You’re a thoughtful young person. Be an artist. Write something personal.” It changed my whole life.

Variety’s “Awards Circuit” podcast, hosted by Clayton Davis, Jazz Tangcay, Emily Longeretta and Michael Schneider, who also produces, is your one-stop source for lively conversations about the best in film and television. Each episode, “Awards Circuit” features interviews with top film and TV talent and creatives, discussions and debates about awards races and industry headlines and much more. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify or anywhere you download podcasts.